Posted by Howark Roark, Architect on July 11, 1999 at 01:22:03:

In Reply to: Re: Raskolnikov=Nietzsche? posted by Michael on May 27, 1999 at 03:17:40:

: I see the overman as more like Ayn Rand's characters - Roark and Galt. The key error in this depiction is that man is not an independent being. As social animals we are all part of groups and personal relationships. I think that this makes entirely individualistic philosophies flawed because our own raison d'etre involves others, not just ourselves.

I'd like to know your reasoning behind the idea that man is not an independent being. All you have stated above is your ultimatum and that groups and relationships exist. Are you attempting to base your idea that man is not independent on the fact that social relationships exist. This is not logically sound. Simple existence of groups and relationships does not support the idea that man as a being is not independent. You do not explain why man is social or why being social is neccesary for his existence.

If you have read the novels of Ayn Rand, then surely you are familiar with her ideas about social interaction, compromise, and man being an end in himself. Have you any knowledge of Rand's concepts? By mentioning her ethics below, I think you are, but if not read The Virtue of Selfishness. I am very curious as to where you diverge from her philosophy and why. You make your statement about man and seem to believe it is self-evident. What dependecy does one man have on another?

: I also believe that the internalization of values which we experience as children is a; if not The; key aspect of our personalities and that any system of thought which is "green field" rather than from our internalised base is likely to be both practically useless and also less green-field than it's author believes. I am thinking particularly of the ethics of Rand here - I have never been able to make sense of Nietzsche's ethics.

I don't understand a word of this. What are you talking about? Why is it not practical? Please explain this. I'm very interested in how you make these determinations.

I await your or any other reply.

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: : I see the overman as more like Ayn Rand's characters - Roark and Galt. The key error in this depiction is that man is not an independent being. As social animals we are all part of groups and personal relationships. I think that this makes entirely individualistic philosophies flawed because our own raison d'etre involves others, not just ourselves. : I'd like to know your reasoning behind the idea that man is not an independent being. All you have stated above is your ultimatum and that groups and relationships exist. Are you attempting to base your idea that man is not independent on the fact that social relationships exist. This is not logically sound. Simple existence of groups and relationships does not support the idea that man as a being is not independent. You do not explain why man is social or why being social is neccesary for his existence. : If you have read the novels of Ayn Rand, then surely you are familiar with her ideas about social interaction, compromise, and man being an end in himself. Have you any knowledge of Rand's concepts? By mentioning her ethics below, I think you are, but if not read The Virtue of Selfishness. I am very curious as to where you diverge from her philosophy and why. You make your statement about man and seem to believe it is self-evident. What dependecy does one man have on another? : : I also believe that the internalization of values which we experience as children is a; if not The; key aspect of our personalities and that any system of thought which is "green field" rather than from our internalised base is likely to be both practically useless and also less green-field than it's author believes. I am thinking particularly of the ethics of Rand here - I have never been able to make sense of Nietzsche's ethics. : I don't understand a word of this. What are you talking about? Why is it not practical? Please explain this. I'm very interested in how you make these determinations. : I await your or any other reply.

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